SomeGuyFawkes
Tuesday 8th April 2008 20:45 | Natural Order |
Nice!
Started with a bang and continued to be an excellent chapter.
If this story riffs off NoFP but without all the emo, it's off to a great start.
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D.A.D.A.chik
Friday 21st December 2007 23:31 | Natural Order |
| ok, i luv it, but am really confuzzeled! |
| Monday 7th January 2008 23:21 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| Wow, you were fuzzled enough to review twice. That, or the Matrix had another glitch. Uh oh. |
D.A.D.A.chik
Friday 21st December 2007 23:30 | Natural Order |
| ok, i luv it, but am really confuzzeled! |
| Monday 7th January 2008 23:21 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| Admission of a problem is the first step to getting help! Step right up! Err, have you read the other four chapters? They might help the ol' fuzzled feeling. |
thwaaack
Wednesday 19th December 2007 00:55 | Natural Order |
I admire your courage in seemingly reproducing a Viridian classic. However I also admire you making Harry a sadist. War changes people.
I wouldn't consider NO's Harry sadistic. While he definately got some satisfaction and perhaps even joy in finishing off Voldie, This was what I would consider vengeance, and raw fury. At this point, Voldie represents EVERYTHING Harry has lost. I don't think too many people in the same position wouldn't get at least some satisfaction at the demise of the antagonist. I don't think Harry actually enjoyed what he was doing, and quite possibly felt bad for it at the end of it all. This view is further shown when Harry expresses some guilt for what he did to Malfoy. NO's Harry is definately ruthless, and playing for keeps the first time through, but he is by no means enjoying what he has done. |
| Thursday 20th December 2007 22:14 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| I'd like to think the issue has been settled with the posting of Ch5 and the rather, err, substantial A/N that explores some of the issues. That said, I think it depends on how you define sadistic. No, I don't he's sunk to Bella's level, but he's certainly not well. And while I left it implied, it's not just insanity that a crusty induces -- look at the particular type and bend to the thoughts that the influence in Bk7 brought about. That would suggest a certain pushing into Darkness... which then leads to the question -- why? What would it gain from such? Therein lies many a bunny. |
Chreechree
Monday 17th December 2007 23:49 | Natural Order |
I would like to publicly state that I have never questioned your sanity otherwise I never would've invited you into my house. The masses can look to your other betas for that. Now, your characterizations and some of your choices, oh yeah, I'll hound you about that when necessary. To me it's interesting that in all of the reviews so far for this chapter, no one has expressed the sentiment that I felt at Harry's actions: sadness. I felt great sadness that the good and noble boy we knew could grow into a man that could act so coldly and be living a life of such utter despair. Of course, I'm not saying that I don't understand his fury at Tom or why he felt he had no choice with Draco considering his mindset, but that it had to come to that at all was a bitter pill to swallow. And I do love your bunny fics (even ones where you use phrases about quivering things that make me want to retch), and NO is a definite favorite.
Can you get me the Holy Hand Grenade? Harry doesn't really need it. |
| Thursday 20th December 2007 22:12 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| In the interests of protecting the accusers, I shall name no names, but no, you've never directly called me out for my mental state. You might have hinted once or twice at something, but that's another question Harry always needs the HHGoA. What else will you shove down a prostate V's throat? Gobsmackers? Candy canes? Oooo, a bucket o' molten caramels! What a way to go. Mmmm. Caramel. (Bad bunny, bad!) Sadness is a part of life, and the corruption of his life has led to many things. It's an interesting premise, and I have to admit a certain temptation to the prequel to NO as a one-chapter State-Of-The-Mind piece ... there's an allure there. |
SatusDee
Sunday 16th December 2007 07:43 | Natural Order |
I admire your courage in seemingly reproducing a Viridian classic. However I also admire you making Harry a sadist. War changes people. However I also deplore this because even Harry should not get glee out of this. Reducing him to Bellatrix's level? What's the point. I've noticed your work is very cynical and whilst you should continue your other fanfic, please abandon this demoralised copy of a decent fanfic. Oh, and I know the fanfic community seems to like Harry being powerful, every power has a limit. He's a boy, not a god.
Of course this is (in it's entirety) only my opinion
Yours
SD |
| Sunday 16th December 2007 23:39 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
Your review is both interesting and puzzling. It's interesting because it's clear to me that you think about things, but puzzling because it doesn't seem like you fully thought out this fic/chapter before making comments. I'll try to expand on that here, so maybe you can leave another comment or PM that helps me understand why your review puzzles me. I'm not sure how the formatting works here in author responses, but I have tried to use whitespace appropriate to help make this readable. Sorry if it gets munged (some sites do that).
First, a Viridian classic? To the best of my knowledge, NoFP was far from the first re-do fic. I won't contest it's the best-written one I've seen most of the time, but it's only "classic" in the sense that it redefined the genre, and set the bar much higher than the predecessors did. I don't mind the comparison, however, because it helps to illustrate that NoFP is doing one thing, and this fic is doing something very, very different. The "demoralised copy of a decent fanfic" I find rather ironic, since that review applies to _all_ fanfic by definition -- if JKR didn't write it, it's not following her views, and thus shouldn't exist, if I follow your logic there.
Harry a sadist? Depends on how you look at it, I suppose. It is without question that Harry in Chapter 1 is insane. The question is, why? Was it just the war? Or was it something more? And is his insanity at the beginning of Ch1 the same as at the end of Ch1? The answers are in that chapter, for the record. I suppose your abhorrent reaction to Harry's insanity in Ch1 here is what makes you think of it as demoralised, but if you go back and read NoFP, there's no way you can argue that Harry there was sane by any means. By definition, if you're going to kill yourself, you're insane. And he was looking forward to it. That's not a sign of good mental health, and certainly not the morals that JKR presented. I'm not trying to harp on your comment, just point out that your comment doesn't jibe with the rest of your review level of thinking.
In terms of powerful Harry, you're implying that in this fic, somehow he's a god or god-like figure. The problem is that I can think of two interpretations to that idea, and I'm not sure which you're referring to, so I'll respond to both.
Is Harry god-like in magic power/foo? No. He's no different here than he is in canon, actually. NoFP has a Super!Harry with his mondo magic core to use, but this fic doesn't. So you may be reacting to the wandless magic bits. The problem with finding any fault with wandless magic is that in Bk7, JKR completely destroyed the belief that a wand is required. If you read the scene with Snape and his memories of Lily, and pay attention to what Lily was doing and the incredible level of control she could exhibit without a wand, then nothing Harry does here is out of line. JKR did not come out and say it, but she did imply massively that anything you can do with a wand, you can do without, just in that one moment of Bk7. I actually disliked reading those scenes, as it completely changes the basis for magic and wands in the series, and mostly I found it inconsistent with prior material. But she's the creator, so...
The other way to look at your comment is that Harry is playing "god" with the timeline, slamming on it willy-nilly. That would be another interesting view to take, but that's actually where this fic deviates from NoFP extensively. In NoFP and every other "re-do" fic (MaxFic, Viridian, Wyadra, the list goes on and on and on with good, hideous, and everything in between examples), Harry comes back and is terrified of "changing the timeline" much. Instead, he plots and plans and carefully tries to unfold events in a certain manner. But if you back up and accept a premise, that premise being that (a) what happened before sucked so bad everyone died and you had to come back; (b) you know what the horcruxes are, where they are, and who was good/bad; and (c) you've gone back in time keeping all that knowledge . . . why would you even dream of letting things go as they were? You're 20+ years old in a 11-esh year old body, with all that history and thinking inside of you. Wouldn't you hit the ground running, and do as much change for the better as you could in as little time as possible? With enough safeguards that you have backup plans in place should things blow up, but that the timeline _is_ changing as quickly as possible so that the future that forced you to kill yourself is many light-cones of probability away? This fic explores (at a somewhat lighter level of detail) that issue. But it also has a lot of small details in it, if the reader takes the time to think about what's going on in each short chapter. Which is why it doesn't post daily.
I have an A/N on th end of Ch5 (the final chapter) that explores some of the more interesting review comments that came in, and explains some of the material that a casual reader was likely to overlook. Given that it's posting every other day, you might want to read that A/N and see if it changes your thinking. It may not, which is fine, but I would like to understand better your source of frustration with this fic. You review speaks of enough understanding and thinking in general that I'm surprised at the content of it, which seems almost like you were expecting something else and reacted to the lack of whatever it was.
Regardless, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. I hope you'll be willing to take a few more and expand on your initial thinking, but if not, thanks anyway. |
narumi
Friday 14th December 2007 11:47 | Natural Order |
| This looks interesting so far. It seems strange to me to be reading a re-do fic that's not NoFP, but this is definitely VERY different right from the start. I like that you did give props to Viridian in your post. I'm looking forward to reading more! |
| Sunday 16th December 2007 23:15 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| I would hope that it's apparent almost immediately that it's not NoFP. NoFP was not the first of its kind, though I would agree it has been the best to date. And while I did borrow the premise for why and how Harry might go back from NoFP, as it was the only logical premise, I'd like to think the very different approach this Harry takes stands out that it's just another re-do fic, not a NoFP variant. |
Arnel
Thursday 13th December 2007 23:05 | Natural Order |
| I thought I recognized elements from NoFP and I'm finding I like your take on do-it-over idea. I'm looking forward to the next chapter because I want to discover how Harry uses his hindsight to right various wrongs that canon holds as truth. |
| Thursday 13th December 2007 23:34 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| The NoFP comparisons are inevitable, so as an author, I opted to be lazy. I made it the same pretext, sort of, but then chucked the NoFP script and used my own. Hopefully you won't be too disappointed if Harry is reading from a different book this time around. Who might say this isn't the NoFP Harry gone back for round three? Well, Viridian would say definitively, I suppose. At any rate, Harry has plans, but as well know, our plans never stay the same once there is contact with the enemy. |
thwaaack
Thursday 13th December 2007 18:55 | Natural Order |
| I have to say, I'm kind of surprised at just how dark your Harry is. Granted, he's only been back for a month and maybe needs to take some time to re-adjust...Then again, I was kind of hoping that he'd get back at snape's legilimency in his first class by "mentally whooping his butt" possibly even going so far as a fatal attack. I'm looking forward to the next update, and if it goes to more chapters, I won't hold it against you. |
| Thursday 13th December 2007 23:32 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| Snape and Legilimency . . . ahh, two very different topics. As you'll see in Chapters 2 and 3, he has plans afoot there. But no, Snape doesn't perish from an over-powered Legilimency attack. His fate, such as it may be, is revealed soon enough. As for Darkness, bear in mind the history and years of desolation and everything else that made Harry who he is during Ch1. Then ask, is that all direct, or is some of it forced by something else? Thanks for sharing your thoughts! |
jonathan-avery
Thursday 13th December 2007 17:01 | Natural Order |
I've been wondering for a while what Natural Order was going to be like. From the between the lines I have parsed from Dave and your conversations, i was rather unsurprised by what has happened in the story so far, other than the entire Malfoy bit. And the only reason that surprised me is because suffocation is an absolutely horrible death.
Now, to be fair, this is actually why I dislike time travel as a story premise. Not that the story is bad but rather the premise behind it and why you are writing it is why I do not like time travel. If you truly had a chance to go back, wouldn't you fix everything as quick as possible instead of trying to conform to some set rules that defined your previous life? So, in a rather back handed way, I'm saying that this is freaking awesome!
Can't wait for the quick resolution I am sure you have planned for the story.
-Jonathan |
| Thursday 13th December 2007 23:30 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| Suffocation is a horrible way to go. I had a relative die from emphysema, and it was horrific to watch all the way around. Kind of reflects on Harry's frame of mind, doesn't it? Between your comments on CM and the review here, you really are good at delivering lines, you know that? At any rate, "freaking awesome" is high praise from you! I think we're on the same page for the background of re-do fics, and that's ultimately why this came about. If you "go back" and have all that power and knowledge, why muck about? Fix it already! |
blue artemis
Wednesday 12th December 2007 22:18 | Natural Order |
| That was a fascinating first chapter. Is your Harry going to always be this ruthless? I don't mind, but it is a bit jarring. And how is anyone going to explain Draco's disappearance? |
| Thursday 13th December 2007 23:27 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| Will he always be this ruthless? Yes and no. When it comes time to deal with V directly, you might reconsider his "ruthless" measure in the story. Draco's disappearance is in the next chapter, but it's also rapidly "noise" in the larger pattern of problems that erupt. |
the_critic
Wednesday 12th December 2007 17:09 | Natural Order |
| Interesting, I was wondering about the similarities to NoFP, looks intesting but is a bit mean to Im curious to see what happens next! |
| Thursday 13th December 2007 23:25 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| A bit mean to Draco? I suppose the sealed fate (ha! sorry for the pun) was a bit mean, but to Harry, it was the only way forward. His sanity is obviously fleeting at this point. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. |
BloodySeraphim
Wednesday 12th December 2007 16:23 | Natural Order |
| Well, a somewhat evil Harry. Looks fun. |
| Thursday 13th December 2007 23:24 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| Somewhat evil... is that like somewhat pregnant? Evil is in the eye of the beholder, or something like that. |
girlspell
Wednesday 12th December 2007 16:18 | Natural Order |
I thought Draco's fate was justified. It was cold and calculated, but it fit this Harry.
5 chapters eh? I'm sure you'll brush up on your transtiions with this. You handled this first one just fine.
I really like this Harry. What I like about your stories is that each one is so different from the other. Not just plot or character, but writing style too.
Looking forward to the next chapter. By the way, liked that opening “Oh, hell no, bitch!, and it's not Mrs Weasley. ”
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| Thursday 13th December 2007 23:24 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| Cold, calculated, and all-but-indifferent... okay, I added that last bit. Yep, five chapters. If I tried really, really hard, I could have probably doubled the length, but it didn't really seem to need it. I'm not going to dot every 'i' and cross every 't' but I am going to nail the coffin shut and toss it into the volcano. I'm glad you find my stories so amusing, but to be honest . . . my betas question my mental stability. If you like all of them, should they question yours, too? I think the story wrote itself from the opening line. I get tired or something happens, I skim some fanfic, and the next thing I know, I've got a full blown anti-fic rant pounding between my ears for why characters do silly things. That said, we all make mistakes, and these characters are no different in the end. Thanks for the review, as always. Hope you enjoy the now live Ch2 as much. |
acciowand
Wednesday 12th December 2007 12:35 | Natural Order |
| Very dark and fast paced- two qualities I love in fanfic! It was a great read and I am looking forward to the rest! |
| Thursday 13th December 2007 23:20 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| Glad you've enjoyed the first piece. It's going to be posting quickly, so your delays should be fairly short. |
RubysQuill
Wednesday 12th December 2007 12:13 | Natural Order |
For the last year or so, some friends of mine and I have repeated discussed who the top authors in H/G fanfiction are; you've consistently made the list (in the top five if you are interested). You have a distinctive style to your writing, a certain harshness at times that is balanced by your own brand of humor. Though I may not always agree with your characterization, I admire your ability to keep those characterizations consistent and following a well thought out progression throughout the length of the story. It goes without saying that you and your beta team work as a well-oiled unit in providing a well structured story that contains proper grammar and spelling.
I enjoy the discussions on your google group frequently and have been waiting for each of your projects to see the light of day (the cryptic messages about them always leaves me intrigued). So naturally I jumped right on the chance to read one of them.
'Natural Order' catches the reader's attention from the opening line, at least it caught mine. When I read “Oh, hell no, bitch!” a certain giddiness swept through me. The giddiness would just start to settle and Harry would giggle over Voldemort's body or execute the next step in his plan, and the giddiness would ascend to new heights. It is an undeniably good thing there weren't any witnesses to my first reading of the chapter as I'm sure my expletive laden mutterings would have proven embarrassing.
I like the way you have given us all the information we need without spelling out every single step Harry has made. I find myself beyond intrigued by the third compartment of 'toys'. And while I was shocked to see Draco's fate, I also can't imagine how else Harry could have effectively dealt with him given the current political climate and lack of hard evidence.
I think my only concern at this point is how this Harry (one who has seen way to much and is seemingly a tad off kilter) will be able to successfully relate with his friends, especially Ginny. I guess I will have to wait and see...
Overall I found this first chapter of Natural Order to a great read that left me anxious for the next.
~Ruby |
| Thursday 13th December 2007 23:20 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| The top 5, eh? Well, I'm glad there are people out there that like what I write, though I'd be surprised to be in the top-5 of HG fanfic. There are quite a few good authors out there in that space, as you know quite a few yourself. Your observation is spot on, though, and I'm quite aware that my work is (to some) controversial and disliked for one reason or another. That's fine, as long as it's reasonably argued or presented, and I welcome commentary of any negative or positive nature along those lines. Even though you don't always like or agree with it, it's nice to know you still give each story a chance to stand on its own independently of the others. And yes, the beta team deserves a lot of credit -- far more than grammar and spelling, truly, but those are part of it too. As for giddiness, I hope you find the entire tale as it stretches out to be one big bubbly event, no matter how . . . disturbing some moments may be. You know it's firing on all cylinders when your betas question your mental health. The mysterious third compartment will be revealed soon, though it probably is not quite what you're hoping for. (He's not James Bond, after all - no RPGs in there, sadly. A Holy Hand-Grenade of Antioch, though...) The lack of sanity of Harry, or his ability to fake it on demand, is going to be a big question right up until the very end. Think you can wait that long? It's only another few days. |
millercommamatt
Wednesday 12th December 2007 10:59 | Natural Order |
| I know you're looking to write a short story, but you pace is fast to the point of being jarring. I think that it I hadn't read Viridian's stories, I might not be able to keep up or to put everything together. |
| Thursday 13th December 2007 23:13 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| A fair criticism, but then, I'd argue you can't read this without having read Viridian's NoFP anyway. His enormous success launched such a widespread swing of knock-offs that it's truly flattering for his skills as an author. That said, I consciously chose not to re-cover all the ground that the now-cliche-imitation spectrum does; I'm relying to some extent on people already being familiar with the concepts on some level, if not as intimately as others. You should find the pace after the first chapter, however, to be more on-target. The first chapter was the setup, but as it should be clear, this Harry is definitely on a different page than NoFP!Harry. |
Chatmandu
Wednesday 12th December 2007 10:09 | Natural Order |
This is certainly a step beyond NoFP!Harry. I always shook my head that Jo called the Voldemort Uprising (my term) a Wizard War and then treated it like a civil police investigation.
Since you plan only 5 chapters I am making the assumption NO!Harry does not have the concerns about changing the timeline that NoFP!Harry does.
I am sure you will get howls of protest that Harry is sinking to the level of the DEs. Why not? There is nothing wrong with fighting them on their level, the trick is not to stay there. |
| Thursday 13th December 2007 23:11 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| I think any re-do fic these days must be compared to NoFP, since Viridian set the bar, and he did a good job of setting it relatively high. That said, there are different ways to look at the timeline. Should you risk changing it, or just trying to nudge the little bits that are safe and easy? If you know the whole score, why dicker? Every day that goes by is one step closer to the timeline you came back to prevent. Does that mean radical changes are best? No, and they are more likely to backfire. But they are also more likely to be rewarding. It's the venture-capital investment idea, you might say. Howls of protest? Nah. I've had howls, and howlers, and so far, the complaints are pretty tame. Ch2 is now live, so Game on! |
lantis222
Wednesday 12th December 2007 09:57 | Natural Order |
| I don't know, it seems to me that this new Harry is only small steps from becoming another Voldemort. Different ways and different means but still. I'm not sure that I like him. I know a lifetime of violence and torture will do that to a person even Harry would be immune. I also think that if Rowling has taught us anything from her universe it's that you can't play with time without dire consequences. I just hope this doesn't blow up in his face (and everyone elses). I do find myself intrigued so I hope you update soon. |
| Thursday 13th December 2007 23:08 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| You can easily argue that this Harry is, indeed, close to Voldemort in some ways. Is he truly that close in the big picture? No, of course not. Is he insane? Obviously. Will that change? Yes. Will there be consequences? Yes to that, too. Not every character is always likable, I know, but hopefully you'll find the tale interesting despite that. People seem to be very sensitive to "tweaks" on Harry's basic persona. |
Macsr71
Wednesday 12th December 2007 09:50 | Natural Order |
Humm…a tad vicious I think, one of the qualities of Harry, and I think the major point that ties so many people to him is his humanity, his ability to put himself in other’s shoes, to feel their pain – right or wrong this is a core value of his. I also think he would find otherways to change the timeline if he was this powerful – maybe plant an amplification spell in Draco that let him feel the pain he inflicted on others
I’m not sure Ginny (or the rest of the “light side”) would be sticking around after she gets over her worship of the Boy-Who-Lived if she finds out that Harry really is this cold.
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| Thursday 13th December 2007 23:06 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| I'll freely admit, many don't like all (or any) of my stories -- not even my beta team. With this one in particular, you should consider who Harry is at the start of Chapter 1. He's obviously not sane, and hasn't been for some time. There's a tad bit of irony in his self-commentary, but he's not even able to recognize it for what it is. Will he change through the story? Yes. But there are a few hard questions to think about in the pauses. Why is Harry as he is in Ch1? Is it a consequence of how things played out, or something else? What would it take to make him "human" (and humane) again? Many re-do fics never really get into it. This one will only get at it between the lines, but there will be changes. However, be prepared that until his agenda is complete, he's not going to be overly merciful. As he's been constructed, he can't be, since he's rushing the job. |
nas4a2
Wednesday 12th December 2007 09:05 | Natural Order |
| it was a good start and keep up the good work. i can't wait to read the next chapter |
| Thursday 13th December 2007 23:01 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| And the next chapter is posted already. Cheers. |
Memory King
Wednesday 12th December 2007 06:23 | Natural Order |
| Excellent start, like the changes Harry's making so far. I've been waiting to read something like this for a long while, a story where Harry deals with his enemies quicklyand efficiently when he goes back to the past. i'm looking forward to reading more. Keep it up! |
| Thursday 13th December 2007 23:01 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| It's coming, it's coming! Not everyone will like how it plays out, but really, Harry isn't sane in Chapter 1. That said, he knows what's going on, and if he's going to fix things, why delay? Every day that goes by makes it that much closer to the timeline he wants to prevent... |
grossclout
Wednesday 12th December 2007 06:20 | Natural Order |
Great start. I like the early elimination of the ferret. Keep up the great work and I hope to see an update soon.
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| Thursday 13th December 2007 23:00 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| You'll see an update every other day until the last chapter posts. Hope you enjoy it all the way through to the end. It's got a couple of fun little twists in it... |
Wolfric
Wednesday 12th December 2007 03:40 | Natural Order |
| Good chapter. I am interested to see how your story differs from NoFP, a story I like a lot. Thanks for writing. W. |
| Thursday 13th December 2007 23:00 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| I think you'll find this story differs quite quickly, and in significant ways. I enjoyed NoFP, and still follow it at times, but his success translated into a lot of imitations. That's good, I suppose, but at the same time, no one is asking the question: if you're really, truly powerful, and then go back, why putz around? Just do it! |
brad
Wednesday 12th December 2007 00:23 | Natural Order |
My God, you're playing for keeps here, aren't you? I wasn't too upset with Harry's torture of Voldemort, but his murdering Draco took me completely by surprise!!
Snape's next, yeah? :-) |
| Thursday 13th December 2007 22:58 | Natural Order (Author Response) |
| Playing for keeps? You mean there's another way to play the game? I guess I should have read the rules. Snape? I can neither confirm nor deny any cackles my betas might offer on that topic. |
